Diesel Fights Back

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Big Daddy
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Diesel Fights Back

Post by Big Daddy »

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Dave Clark
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Re: Diesel Fights Back

Post by Dave Clark »

Desaxe cylinder/piston design is (was ?) common in the motorcycle world but this is the first time I have read of it in a car engine. Maybe I don,t read enough.

I will be interested to hear testers comments on how noisy or otherwise this engine is, with its all aluminium construction and stated short combustion time.
Paulc
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Re: Diesel Fights Back

Post by Paulc »

Well if diesel is going to fight back they better get a move on. In London the proposal is to ban all diesel taxis 'licenses will not be issued for diesel taxis from 2018 and all new taxis will have to be a fully electric or hybrid vehicles.' In addition the congestion zone (which now seems to be an emission zone) will operate 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. The proposal seeks to ban on pre-EU6 diesels — cars registered before 2014, and pre-EU4 petrols, as well as any registered before 2005. Consultation is also taking place to extend the congestion zone boundary to the north/south circular road. I was in Central London recently and the air quality was poor, but the real culprits were the idling taxis/buses/vans.

Since it has been proven by an independent study (http://emissionsanalytics.com) that 'many new cars do not meet the legislated limits in real-world operation. The data shows NOx emissions are on average 4.3 times over the limit for Euro 6 cars and, after a period of improvement, this Conformity Factor is rising. This is the heart of the issue, as to whether diesels are the major and unavoidable cause of poor air quality in towns and cities'. Interesting times ahead!
Alan
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Re: Diesel Fights Back

Post by Alan »

I drive in London all the time. My van won't idle if everyone gets out of my way.
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Chairman
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Re: Diesel Fights Back

Post by Chairman »

The trucks I drive 65 plate Euro 6 engines have telematics on them, which means at the end of your shift, the transport office can see how you have been driving... any harsh braking, speeding, idling for more than 15 seconds flags up! , over revving the engine, driving outside the engine green band range, mpg, use of cruise control, it goes on.....however, the upshot of the telematics is its better for the vehicles because they are all driven gently to avoid a poor score and fuel economy is much improved.....before the telematics went live I was getting 12/13 mpg out of the truck, now is 16/18 mpg... :whistle: heck of a saving over a day of 3-400 miles.....let alone a week/month even a year, hence why the company recons it will save around £1 million pounds in fuel this year alone nationwide.....annual fuel bill at present is just over £11 million pounds.. :shock:
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Re: Diesel Fights Back

Post by Countryboy »

Chairman wrote:The trucks I drive 65 plate Euro 6 engines have telematics on them, which means at the end of your shift, the transport office can see how you have been driving... any harsh braking, speeding, idling for more than 15 seconds flags up! , over revving the engine, driving outside the engine green band range, mpg, use of cruise control, it goes on.....however, the upshot of the telematics is its better for the vehicles because they are all driven gently to avoid a poor score and fuel economy is much improved.....before the telematics went live I was getting 12/13 mpg out of the truck, now is 16/18 mpg... :whistle: heck of a saving over a day of 3-400 miles.....let alone a week/month even a year, hence why the company recons it will save around £1 million pounds in fuel this year alone nationwide.....annual fuel bill at present is just over £11 million pounds.. :shock:

And I thought you were an eco warrior !

I would never own is a carconegenic diesel.....done more to kill off air quality than anything else.....

:whistle:

I can't talk I'm afraid :roll:
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Big Daddy
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Re: Diesel Fights Back

Post by Big Daddy »

Countryboy wrote:And I thought you were an eco warrior !
Chairman wrote:I would never own is a carconegenic diesel.....done more to kill off air quality than anything else.....
:whistle:

I can't talk I'm afraid :roll:
I suspected Mark drove dirty diesel trucks when he wrote the original comment. But even with the exhaust emissions associated with 16 mpg (or 12 mpg) over many miles each trip, he doesn't actually own the truck. So his original comment bears scrutiny, just... :whistle:

BTW I think modern common rail diesels are great except in densely populated urban environments - we have two... :thumbs:
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Re: Diesel Fights Back

Post by Chairman »

I have driven a few old nails when working for various agencies as I was building up my experience :whistle:
The worst place was a nameless company who's warehouse was a filthy black place with half a dozen diesel forklift trucks scurrying around belching out black carcinogenic fumes...
Having worked in the motor trade, I have also seen the consequences of people buying diesel cars purely on the grounds of economy.....most do regular low mileage trips and a cold Diesel engine is generally no more economical than a petrol equivalent plus they subsequently clog up.
I believe to get the real benefits of a diesel vehicle, your use age must be around 15,000 miles per annum and regular journeys of 15 miles minimum with some higher speeds too.
City driving especially in rush hours etc should be in electric vehicles and will be the way in the future......
Roll on electric and or hydrogen trucks :shock: :thumbs:
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Re: Diesel Fights Back

Post by Big Daddy »

Chairman wrote:City driving especially in rush hours etc should be in electric vehicles and will be the way in the future......Roll on electric and or hydrogen trucks :shock: :thumbs:
:iagree:
Hydrogen fuel-cell buses have been on trial in London since 2004. Size of fleet has increased steadily since, and the trial extended to 2020. So that's 16 years (possibly 17) to trial this new technology. There are still many significant practical and economic problems to solve before hydrogen buses become viable, not least how to store hydrogen without serious leakage.

Link from 2005: http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/1354

And more recently: http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/8121


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Big Daddy
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Re: Diesel Fights Back

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Chairman wrote:I believe to get the real benefits of a diesel vehicle, your use age must be around 15,000 miles per annum and regular journeys of 15 miles minimum with some higher speeds too.
:iagree: Diesel engines cost more to manufacture and consequently diesel cars tend to be more expensive to buy. To offset this additional cost through improved fuel economy, around 15,000 miles/annum is needed to break even.

Chairman wrote:...most do regular low mileage trips and a cold Diesel engine is generally no more economical than a petrol equivalent plus they subsequently clog up.
My view is that diesels are fuel efficient under most operating conditions whereas petrol efficiency varies considerably. But many diesel engines have greater thermal capacity (eg heavy iron block) so can take longer to warm up.

Diesel fuel has the benefit of containing 11% more energy per unit volume than petrol, which is an instant saving at the pumps. For my mode of operation, a GDi petrol engine gives about 15% worse fuel economy than the equivalent diesel engine. To get petrol engine efficiency that close to diesel is quite remarkable... :thumbs:

AA reckon: "The increase in fuel consumption due to cold weather is similar for both diesel and petrol cars." But the reference datum for the diesel is better so by AA's data, diesel maintains an advantage in cold weather:
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/ne ... oring.html

Regardless, buying a diesel for limited use would be ridiculous. Interesting topic... :wave:
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Chairman
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Re: Diesel Fights Back

Post by Chairman »

The main culprits in the dirty diesel saga apart from those that have been 'rigged' are those from pre Euro 6 build. Namely most stuff from pre 2011/2012. One only has to see older diesel vehicles accelerate and belch out clouds of carcinogen, we instantly turn off the air intake vents....but the damage has been done.....this is what causes many thousands of breathing related deaths in the UK each year, worldwide it is hundreds and hundreds of thousands.... :shock:
Any engine left idling for more than 20 seconds in traffic is a pollutant, hence why stop start technology was introduced....at work we are encouraged to turn engines off after 20 seconds if safe to do so. This happens many times during the day....shaking heads at people sat idling in traffic queues foot on foot Brake! :evil:
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Big Daddy
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Re: Diesel Fights Back

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Chairman wrote:Any engine left idling for more than 20 seconds in traffic is a pollutant, hence why stop start technology was introduced....at work we are encouraged to turn engines off after 20 seconds if safe to do so. This happens many times during the day....shaking heads at people sat idling in traffic queues foot on foot Brake! :evil:
Stop-Start certainly reduces unnecessary emissions in the urban environment, but also significant improves urban fuel economy... :thumbs:
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Big Daddy
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Re: Diesel Fights Back

Post by Big Daddy »

Chairman wrote:One only has to see older diesel vehicles accelerate and belch out clouds of carcinogen, we instantly turn off the air intake vents....but the damage has been done.....this is what causes many thousands of breathing related deaths in the UK each year, worldwide it is hundreds and hundreds of thousands.... :shock:
:iagree: But don't ignore other major sources of pollution from transport. Apparently emissions from ocean-going ships are responsible for 60,000 deaths a year from heart and lung-related cancers. Ships use heavy fuel oil or "bunker crude" which has sulphur levels up to 3,500 times higher than European road vehicle diesel.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/environme ... 3320071107
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Alan
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Re: Diesel Fights Back

Post by Alan »

first thing I do once the car is started, is turn OFF my 'blue efficiency switch' so the engine doesn't cut out when I am stationary. :mrgreen:
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Re: Diesel Fights Back

Post by A40FARINAGURU »

Alan wrote:first thing I do once the car is started, is turn OFF my 'blue efficiency switch' so the engine doesn't cut out when I am stationary. :mrgreen:
sounds like your 'Blue efficency switch' whatever that is????????? has got a fault, maybe adjust the throttle up a bit which may stop it cutting out :thumbs:
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