engine size change.

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16Cabulrd
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engine size change.

Post by 16Cabulrd »

I am an novice restoring a 1955 a30 currently fitted with an 803cc engine, I have several A series engines and am wondering if it would be worth reconditioning a 948 cc engine and what the benefits would be if any. also is there any difficulty in swopping. I also have 4 gearboxes, 2 plain and 2 ribbed but do not know which would be suitable for a 948cc. can anyone please advise me.
Last edited by gazza82 on Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed typo and moved to correct section (webeditor)
Paulc
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Re: engine size change.

Post by Paulc »

Is your existing gearbox ok? A lot depends on how many miles you intend to use your car per annum, a bit of cost benefit analysis wouldn't go amiss! The 948 is a much better engine than the 803 and plenty of A30s have the larger engine. You'll have an immediate increase in power plus some parts such as the water pump/oil filter are significantly cheaper. The members' area will allow you to access club magazines where this swap has been carried out (pretty easy if you stick with the existing box). You may find that your existing diff, probably a 4.88 is too high and you can easily pull a 4.22 with a 948cc.
Tight Yorkshireman
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Re: engine size change.

Post by Tight Yorkshireman »

Agree with Paul
I would not mess with the 803 if a major overhaul

I have a 948 in my A30 EMD with the original box can forget about first gear most of the time. Its a nippy thing for round town though and have though about modding the box as some have done with A35 box parts to get better gearing

John G
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Edosan
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Re: engine size change.

Post by Edosan »

As already said, engine swap is very easy as all connections on 948 and clutch etc are exactly the same. On gearboxes one of the difficulties is that none of the A35 gearboxes plain and ribbed with remote change will fit into the A30 without changing the transmission tunnel which is a specialised job involving cutting and welding. You can however swap internals, very easily from plain A35 to A30 and with more difficulty from ribbed to plain. For the latter I would advise a gearbox specialist and there are contacts on here if you wanted to do this. Just use the search box. Like John I actually like the A30 gearbox with a bigger engine. :wave:
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Re: engine size change.

Post by gazza82 »

Neil recently recommended someone for gearbox work

John E Evans, Marine and Classic Car Transmissions, 24 Seaview Road, Hayling Island, Hants, PO11 9PE TEL 023 9246 5256.
"If you're driving on the edge ... you're leaving too much room!"

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Cars: "Project 757" '59 A35 2-door bought in 1971 & Subaru BRZ SE LUX Auto plus "family fleet": Alfa MiTo, Peugeot 206, (Ex '98 Alfa Romeo 156 2.0 TS)
SteveClem
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Re: engine size change.

Post by SteveClem »

Yes Mr Evans is a good egg! He rebuilt my A30 gearbox some years ago and it's been excellent. Not crazy money either.
RMKracing1
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Re: engine size change.

Post by RMKracing1 »

I've been in contact with john and he is going to fit midget internals into my A30 gearbox.

He's very knowledgable.
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Demetri
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Re: engine size change.

Post by Demetri »

Following on from the original question... I have also recently acquired an A30 1956 Countryman. It has the original 803cc which, from my research, does not seem to be adequate for modern road usage.

It's currently in bits with a trashed head, damaged no.2 cylinder, blown pistons rusty.. etc etc. Nevertheless, the car is one owner from new and has been in dry storage for over 30 years and is in exceptionally original condition with numbers matching.

Although I realise that for a car of this value, this is not so significant, but as its a rarer "Countryman", I wanted to try and keep it original.

To this end, I am wondering what I could possibly do in order to make it usable for modern roads. I read Vizard's manual, but he always starts off with, "if you have an 803cc, forget it"... so that wasn't much help. I understand where he's coming from, but I don't want a performance machine. I just want to NOT be a hinderance to other traffic around town.

Also, I understand that the crank cannot cope with much more power than it currently has..... but seeing as I'm having the head and block machined, and I'm completely rebuilding the engine from scratch... there must be SOMETHING I can do to improve it... no??
Last edited by Demetri on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
1956 A30 Countryman
* 1 owner - recovered from dry basement where it sat for 30+ years *
16Cabulrd
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Re: engine size change.

Post by 16Cabulrd »

Paulc wrote:Is your existing gearbox ok? A lot depends on how many miles you intend to use your car per annum, a bit of cost benefit analysis wouldn't go amiss! The 948 is a much better engine than the 803 and plenty of A30s have the larger engine. You'll have an immediate increase in power plus some parts such as the water pump/oil filter are significantly cheaper. The members' area will allow you to access club magazines where this swap has been carried out (pretty easy if you stick with the existing box). You may find that your existing diff, probably a 4.88 is too high and you can easily pull a 4.22 with a 948cc.
Thanks for advice Paul, I will check the condition of my 948s and recon the best one, will also retain the a30 box and see how it goes. I assume from the replies that both the smooth and ribbed gearboxes are a30 and not a35. is there any way for me as a complete novice to establish this?
Dave Clark
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Re: engine size change.

Post by Dave Clark »

Demetri, I applaud your wish to keep your rare vehicle original but I,m afraid that, as you acknowledge, the 803 will be unable to keep pace at modern traffic speeds.

Even if you were to tune the engine with a modified head and increased compression etc it will be very limited if you keep the original carb and manifolds/exhaust. Additionally, these engines are a little fragile when worked hard and, in particular, when revved hard, which would be necessary to extract best performance.

Add the handicap of the A30 gearbox and it could be a frustrating project to try and make it a car that could keep up,

Just do as you are, keep it original and enjoy motoring at a slower pace.

I suggest a smile and a wave when the impatient car behind you seems frustrated, rather than the common salute !!
Edosan
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Re: engine size change.

Post by Edosan »

Gearbox question, main external difference between A30 and A35 gearboxes is the remote change on the A35 ones and then A30 were only smooth and ribbed gearboxes all had remote change and were fitted to A35 vans, late Minors, A40 Mk 2's and Midgets / Sprites. Smooth non remote gearboxes were fitted to both early Minors and A30's although they were slightly different in that the Minor had a longer tail housing which will not work with an A30 propshaft. They are relatively easy to switch around but easier to stick with A30 box in an A30.
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Re: engine size change.

Post by A40FARINAGURU »

Edosan wrote:Gearbox question, main external difference between A30 and A35 gearboxes is the remote change on the A35 ones and then A30 were only smooth and ribbed gearboxes all had remote change and were fitted to A35 vans, late Minors, A40 Mk 2's and Midgets / Sprites. Smooth non remote gearboxes were fitted to both early Minors and A30's although they were slightly different in that the Minor had a longer tail housing which will not work with an A30 propshaft. They are relatively easy to switch around but easier to stick with A30 box in an A30.
smooth remote boxes were also fitted to the MK1 A40 Farina & the early 948cc MK2's
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16Cabulrd
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Re: engine size change.

Post by 16Cabulrd »

Thanks for info Nick, have decided to stick with a30 box. Terry.
Tight Yorkshireman
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Re: engine size change.

Post by Tight Yorkshireman »

I find the A30 box very good on gear changing and drive generally. Mine is very noisy until you get top gear (so no use of lay bearings) though guess it needs some bearings

John G 8)
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Re: engine size change.

Post by Neil Evans »

Tight Yorkshireman wrote:I find the A30 box very good on gear changing and drive generally. Mine is very noisy until you get top gear (so no use of lay bearings) though guess it needs some bearings

John G 8)
And a shaft... :thumbs:
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